Thor's Hammer: Capturing Lightning Energy by Sustainably Innovate

The physics and energy capture schema sound good, but lightning occurrences (location, frequency, intensity)are stochastic. A pilot effort would be at a location best meeting high lightning occurrence levels of frequency and intensity. Then there are the other variables, lightning altitude and the longitudinal/lateral travel of the lightning wave itself. Thank you, Mark

Excellent summary and URLs Doron. Brings much more perspective from the Universities of Florida, Illinois and UK's South Hampton. 200K Volt Nokia video interesting. Here's some similar content out of Brazil and Malaysia: http://webberenergyblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/lightning-hows-that-for-alternative/ Ditto Cheers

Thanks for your comments and interest! I haven't yet finished this proposal. However, I see rather tall towers with lightning rods at the top, which addresses the "bottom of lightning" comment above, as well as the "diffuse" comment. Also, I do not see this as practical everywhere, but a viable alternative in an every diversifying energy supply situation. None of us knows what energy source will best replace oil with its high EROI, however, it seems somewhat that the comments expect some panacea rather than a real-world solution, and hold that up as a standard. Personally, I think a combination of ever-increasing efficiency and diversification of local and "smart" sources of energy are the way of the future. Yes, getting energy from the storms themselves sounds great. Design that then! Yes, this does not solve all problems, and probably won't clip your toenails and shine your shoes. Design that then. I'm interested in a creative way to do something that seems it might work and allow us to harness some energy. This is interesting to think about and design. I hope to come up with some general number of yield, etc. but want to do that carefully. very best and I will check your links and information !!

Oh, and of course I know lots of people have thought about harnessing lightning energy. That's the problem. We see all that electricity and start drooling after the energy. That's why here I'm proposing harnessing it by allowing the conversion into heat and pressure (called "Thunder") to serve as a time buffer. Yes it is a real shame we can't just store that high voltage directly, but I'm interested in solving problems that can be solved NOW. To me, it's very interesting that this seems like it could work right now. Imagine - a tall radio-type tower with lightning rod, leading down to a chamber containing the gas (call it air for now), perhaps pre-treated (ionized, etc.) to make conduction slightly easier. Once the lightning energy passes through a chamber, the pressure (and heat) is contained, and can then be controlled. The chamber size and form can be designed to keep pressures and energy transfer manageable, and insulated so that most of the heat is converted to pressure. Then, a variety of harnessing mechanisms can be employed as described. 1. Running pressurized gas through turbines. 2. Lifting water or some other heavy substance. 3. Kept as pressurized gas for later use. 4. Endothermic reactions requiring high temperature and pressure, storing the energy chemically. Thanks for the dialogue, really helps a lot! (All that 'rain on my parade' turns into lightning, don't you know?)

The Challenge. Lightning Frequency, Location, Intensity and Duration are STOCHASTIC. It's akin to Thermodynamics - Entropy and Enthalpy. Tough construct.

Maybe reach out to POC(s)/authors of URLs above or similar Google search for SMEs? Maybe just one to start. Stature of MIT could open a door or two!

Thanks Doron for your interest!

Supposedly, the energy equivalent of a lightening bolt is .85 barrels of oil. URLs below talk about enormous lightening energy stats - 6 Billion Joules, 300M Volts, 110K Amps. .85 seems to be the ratio cited within Doron's URL above (http://www.energyrealities.org/content/can-we-harvest-lightning-for-the-power-grid/erpF6DBEAA525E11957A), i.e., NYC Empire State Building is struck 23 times a year, the FF equivalent of 20 barrels of oil. The URL proffers the notion of harvesting such energy for the exclusive use of structures receiving strikes. Here are some more URLs which offer curious thoughts and stats. 1. How Stuff Works: http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/harvest-energy-lightning.htm Excerpts from the URL cite: First of all, there's the basic fact that thunder storms are sporadic and lighting strikes random; considering that energy demands are steady, dependable energy sources are preferable. Second, it's not so easy to capture energy delivered in one enormous blast in a split second. It has to be stored and converted to an alternating current, without blowing out the collection system in a single large strike. Third, the energy contained in a lightning bolt disperses as it travels down to Earth, so a tower would only capture a small fraction of the bolt's potential. In the end, barring the development of a technology that could capture the energy from lightning before it strikes, it's probably best to focus on other, more earthly sources of energy. 2. Volts, Amps, KWh, Joules, Capacitors, Coils, etc. discussion (including the underlying purpose and findings of Ben Franklin's kite experiment!: http://www.sciforums.com/Capacitor-to-store-lightning-t-40964.html Here are excerpts from this URL: RadialEngineMan 01-01-05, 12:20 PM Amazing how little is known about lightning, as demonstrated here in this thread. A careful reading of Ben Franklin's famous experiment showed that lightning was electricity- and without a lightning bolt! He used the charging of the atmosphere to collect energy to charge his Leyden Jar- a crude battery/capacitor. No reason this method couldn't be done on a large scale. In a strike: Mention is made here in this thread of the need for a resistor: not so, a charging coil (reluctance) could be used to limit the surge of the high amount of electricity. Such a coil could also have the added advantage of acting like a transformer- transforming high voltage/low amperes to low voltage/high amperes. It has the advantage of eliminating the need for a variable capacitor. So sure, these things would have to be huge, but not the size of the "State of Montana"! The TV Discovery Channel had several programs showing lightning and it's effects. They used rockets trailing wires to channel the lightning to a target. This could be done as a form of control. A ionized path created by a laser might also work. To my mind, there are several possibilities of obtaining electricity other than the crude means we now use to make it. One is a way to tap the ionosphere- it contains a tremendous "Difference of Potential" as a result of solar cosmic activity. Could it be tapped with a ionized path? Nasor 01-02-05, 05:20 PM How many joules of capturable electrical energy are in the average lightening strike? I doubt it's enough to be worthwhile. RadialEngineMan 01-13-05, 02:35 PM Amazingly, there are 2 different types of lightning, (actually 3, if you count "Sprites" somewhat recently discovered). The type mentioned by Nasor is probably negatively charged and has a short duration measured in just a few Milliseconds, but the 2nd type which is positively charged has a burn duration measured in tens of Milliseconds and is extremely distractive. To capture such energy and put it to use, I would envision a massive inductor, which when struck with a bolt, would be able to transform the massive flow of energy and lower the charge with a secondary coil, or, using a movable core, like a solenoid, convert it to mechanical energy that could be stored. One way of using lightning is for experimentation, as we are not capable of creating such high voltages for examination of the distractive effects. Using lightning directly would be a real advantage. Concerning "Sprites": I believe these are created when the lower ionosphere "arcs over" to negatively charged lightning in high clouds. The ionosphere holds hundreds of thousands of volts caused by charging from the Suns cosmic particle bombardment. If we could just tap that........ Keep your thoughts coming Matt, Mark

Galen, you are a gentleman. This site is about Discovery, Knowledge Exchange, Team Work, Breakthroughs, New Business Models, Exploring The Bleeding Edge of Technology, and so much more. You are doing your part - Lightening is powerful - 5 Billion Joules, 300M Volts, and 100K Amps. So it is a point of fact that your project is worthy of exploration. I think is poignant that the following lessons of life apply - so thank you for pursuing your project and others should agree. Here's some famous quotes regarding Wisdom and the Human Spirit - that's what you are trying to do with your project: “Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat. It is a temporary detour, not a dead end. Failure is something we can avoid only by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.” - Denis Waitley (Navy Blue Angels Pilot) “Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever.” - Lance Armstrong “What is the point of being alive if you don’t at least try to do something remarkable?” – John Green

As mentioned by other comments, it is a very interesting idea. I think the proposal creator can also establish a partnership with building owners, since urban areas have a lot of skyscrapers that the team can make full use of as a receiver. Building owners have an alternative to equip some facilities to integrate what they got into part of power suppply.

Sounds like your energy source (lightening strikes to a single tower) are highly unpredictable, making this a unpredictable source of power.Storing the energy as compressed gas or phase change materials is clever in that it can be converted to electricity as neededUnclear if this could ever be done in a cost effective manner.Good credentials of those involved but there needs to be a lot more work done to prove feasibilityMay want to look at experiences in high altitude wind turbines for some insights into the issues around these type of energy sources. Capture the energy from lightning in Tall buildings positioned in areas with lightning high frequency. Interesting Initiative but scope will be limited to few locations and management and storing the highly unpredictable energy will not be easy. A very preliminary analysis of potential of energy captured versus cost of installing would be very useful. Additional topics on the technical also have to be explored.